And The Music Is Still So Invigorating: Ian Glasper

Back to The Scene That Would Not Die […], twenty years is a considerable stint to cover and the longest chronology you’ve written yet. Did the process differ in any other ways at all or was covering bands in real-time the main challenge? Did the instantaneous nature of communication help or hinder you?

Actually, I’ve never been more inspired than by my current circumstances. Having the playing live outlet removed has really focused me on writing new material, so I’ve picked my bass up almost every day, sometimes for five minutes, just to articulate a riff I’ve had pop into my head, sometimes for hours on end. Lyrically the inspiration has been almost continuous, and I’ve probably penned 30 songs in the last six months – what with COVID, lockdown, the killing of George Floyd, Donald Trump’s reign of chaos, the shit show that is Brexit. Every time you switch on the TV news, there is some fresh injustice that infuriates you, and writing about it is very therapeutic.

But you’re right about the new book – I’ve never tackled a twenty-year period, only ever decades. In fact, someone joked that I’ve done three books on the Eighties, one on the Nineties, and now half a book each on the 2000s and 2010s, referencing ‘diminishing returns’, haha! One of the reasons for this, I think, is that with the benefit of the internet, you can pretty much find whatever you want out about a band whenever you need it, which makes a reference book a bit of an indulgence for most people unless you’re a book lover. So we thought we’d go for broke and make it a big one!

Also, the reason the Eighties was covered by three books was that there was a distinct division between the ‘UK82’ Punk scene and the ‘Anarcho’ Punk scene and the ‘UKHC’ scene of the late Eighties, which lent itself to three separate volumes. Likewise, the Nineties felt very different again. But I would struggle to highlight any major differences between the 2000s and the 2010s, so opted for the ‘post-millennial’ overview instead.

The process was very much the same though – make a list of bands I rated and start reaching out to them! I think I listed almost 200 bands, and a lot of them automatically excluded themselves from appearing by not replying, or not following up on requests for interviews and just not getting back to me. I also decided to not try and incorporate all the many weird and wonderful sub-genres of Punk – you know: Grindcore, Hardcore, Pop-Punk etc. – because it would have been a vast project. 

The instantaneous communication we enjoy these days was definitely a benefit – finding people is so much easier with Facebook and Discogs etc. For the very first book I did – ‘Burning Britain’ – I was still writing to addresses on the back of old records and even using electoral rolls and stuff… proper detective work, which was very satisfying, but also time-consuming and frustrating when leads went cold. Years later, some of the bands I couldn’t track down got in touch once the internet was a widespread thing and they’d read a review of the book online etc., and we squeezed a load of them into the expanded US edition.

You say the process for procuring the bands was much the same despite having an easier way of getting in touch and such. When you were choosing the bands you rated and wanted to feature, without giving too much away, did you “just know” who you wanted? Were there any difficulties at all or was it as you say, simply a matter of who replied?

There were definitely bands that I really wanted – almost needed – to appear, and happily, I got a good few of those. But there were some I really wanted that didn’t come through for me either, despite me chasing them over and over, but such is life – you can’t force someone to do an interview with you. Well, you can, but torture is meant to be against the law, haha! Then there were others that weren’t so ‘essential’, but would be good to have, and some that I hadn’t even thought of, and then someone reminded me of them.

One of the latter bands got in at literally the last minute! Once I got up to about 90+ confirmed bands, I was shooting for around 100, but I accidentally went over, when a few bands I didn’t think were going to bother coming back to me got back at the eleventh hour, so then the OCD was kicking in a bit when I was sat at 103 or 104 bands. That was when I decided 111 was a good number – I could squeeze a few more in, and it felt right. It’s always a bit of a juggling act, especially as you near the maximum number because you always have one eye on the word/page count too. As usual, I overwrote the book and had to trim over 50,000 words in my final edit to bring it in at a manageable size. Also, as usual, once the book was completely put to bed, a few of the bands I really wanted to include finally got back to me.

You can make things like that up can you really?! Once you hit 111, did you consider going over at all? Especially as some of these “wanted” interviewees suddenly materialised.

Speaking more specifically of the interviews, were there any, without naming names, that you found particularly difficult, insightful or particularly intense as you were putting the book together? 

There was actually no way we could go over 111 bands because the book would have been up to almost 700 pages and just too big – plus those ‘wanted’ bands came in after the design was already done, so it would have meant unpicking everything to insert them. and to be fair, they’d all had well over a year to get their act together, haha!

Unfortunately, due to obvious circumstances, most of the interviews were done by email and Zoom etc., so the intensity of talking about difficult stuff was removed from the equation to an extent, although there’s still plenty of pathos and controversy. As is the way when Punk bands are recounting their touring experiences, there’s lots of drink and drugs, and lots of road accidents and violence, showdowns with Nazis outside European squats, and the like. But the bands also had plenty to say about politics and class and discrimination of all kinds. A big thing these last two decades for Punk in the UK is the annual Rebellion festival, which many of the bands hold in high regard as a vital social get-together, whilst others have a scathing contempt for it because they feel it’s little more than a nostalgia-fest and that Punk is going the way of the teddy boys and rockers before them, so that was a divisive topic.

I guess the hardest thing to talk about is when people die, especially unexpectedly before their time, and this book was marred by – amongst many others – the sad passing of Dave Cart, who ran Nunny Dave Records and was instrumental in putting out records by many of the bands I covered. Also, one of the band members lost his little boy in a tragic accident just as I was editing everything down, so he wanted to dedicate their chapter to his memory. It’s things like that that remind you the trials and tribulations of the Punk scene pale into insignificance next to family and humanity. What was wonderful to see though was that a fundraiser to cover funeral costs raised thousands more than expected, so it was good to see the Punk community pulling together and rallying around one of their own when in genuine need.

That final point is heartwarming to read but at least given this year, it’s nice to read and hear about instances where the community has actually acted like one rather than falling into being divisive or worse. There has been a huge amount given to charity this year in the name of the Punk and Alternative music scene, not to mention a huge amount of work put into saving the likes of gig venues and record shops and such.

You’ve touched on Rebellion and the meeting of the old and the new. Personally, whenever I’ve been, I’ve enjoyed it but I have admittedly spent my time in the company of the new, contemporary and progressively minded wings of the festival. Now, with that in mind, obviously, you have covered bands from different scenes, generations and backgrounds in your time writing and met such through touring. What would you say are the prominent differences between Punks and Punk devotees “then” and in this Post-Millennial scene?

Yeah, I’ve always enjoyed Rebellion as well, and I’ve probably been half a dozen times and played it twice as well. There are so many bands on, you’re guaranteed to be able to find something you want to watch, and it’s always good to catch up with old friends and everything. At this moment in time – mid-COVID – what wouldn’t I give to spend a long weekend up in Blackpool watching Punk bands?

And whilst I think the means of doing things has changed – downloads instead of albums, streams instead of demos etc. – there’s not much to separate the young Punk fan of today from the young Punk fan of yesteryear. They still love the music as much, they still get excited when they hear a new band, they’re still forming bands of their own. It’s just that technology has changed the landscape. You can look up a track someone recommends you listen to in seconds, you can book a tour in a few hours but the emotional attachment to the music is still the same, I think. Certainly, young Punk fans now seem just as enthused about the music – and the messages – as I did when I was a teenager – they just don’t have to sacrifice so much time and effort to access it as I did, waiting a week for a demo to fall through the postbox, catching a bus at the weekend to the nearest big town to go to the record shop etc. And they have such a huge array of music to wade through online, they’re literally spoilt for choice, but I don’t think that cheapens the experience for them like some old die-hards would have you believe. 

One good thing about today compared to the Eighties – there’s much less violence at gigs. No one’s sorry to see the back of all the aggro.

I found the festival such a juxtaposing experience. On the one hand, I’d find the above and have a great time but I did also find there to be trends on the regressive side of things. How do you feel about the internal struggle with the more conservative elements of the scene and those who take it that step further? Have you had much experience with it? Obviously, the experience of others will be in the book.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, the enthusiasm has changed but hasn’t lessened. What would you say to these diehards if you were within earshot of one of these comments projected at a younger Punk-enthusiast?  

I talk about this in the intro to the book, as the rise of conservatism in Punk is something I find disappointing personally. I say ‘personally’ because obviously this is only my opinion, and Punk means different things to different people. But I find it ludicrous when anyone – never mind ‘Punks’ – condemn movements like Antifa. Fascism is dangerous and should be opposed, so being Anti-Fascist is basically a default for any decent caring person. Or so you would think. Yet Punk rockers around the world back Trump’s claims that Antifa are terrorists, or ‘ruining the scene’. You also have people diluting the BLM message with ‘All Lives Matter’ and ‘Animal Lives Matter’. Of course they do matter, but that’s a different struggle and mustn’t detract from the very specific issue being confronted by BLM. Punk has always been about questioning authority for me, questioning what the government and media pump out, not taking everything at face value, looking for the hidden agendas when they demonise illegal immigrants etc. Of course, social media has introduced a whole new level of subtle propaganda, and myths are promulgated even more insidiously. Chaos is encouraged as legislation is slipped under the radar.

But whenever I hear a die-hard ’70s or ’80s Punk fan saying that youngsters these days ‘don’t know they’re born’ and ‘their music is just a noise’, and even taking the piss out of how they look, I just remind them they sound like the old fogies they used to scoff at when they were teenagers. Punk keeps moving – it belongs to the youth and rightfully so! You enjoyed it, and still enjoy it, but it’s their turn now. Don’t be a bitter, twisted old cynic – why not encourage and inspire, and help shape something positive for once, or at least pipe down and let them get on with it?

It’s really quite jarring how Punk has taken on these different political tribes in some countries and political systems, I very much agree that it means different things to different people but the prevailing attitude is that of progress and community for everyone but again, “everyone” doesn’t seem to mean everyone.